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	<title>Comments on: Mice and men and merde and mort</title>
	<atom:link href="http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/</link>
	<description>the tao that can be blogged is not the eternal tao</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5</generator>
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		<title>By: Lyss</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910447</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910447</guid>
		<description>Don't feel too bad about the 2nd mouse. When I worked at one TV station, a co-worker of mine decided to take home a mouse that was caught in the Sales Dept. The mouse lasted less than 24 hours. He guessed that the mouse was overwhelmed by all the travel to the new place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t feel too bad about the 2nd mouse. When I worked at one TV station, a co-worker of mine decided to take home a mouse that was caught in the Sales Dept. The mouse lasted less than 24 hours. He guessed that the mouse was overwhelmed by all the travel to the new place.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910423</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910423</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Wow, I got a lot of heartless bastards for friends.

The little guy was a cute living thing, and I saw no reason to kill it just because it wanted a warm place to live and some food.&lt;/em&gt;

As if to corroborate your opening statement, for a split second I thought you were referring to the homeless guy in the second statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Wow, I got a lot of heartless bastards for friends.</p>
<p>The little guy was a cute living thing, and I saw no reason to kill it just because it wanted a warm place to live and some food.</em></p>
<p>As if to corroborate your opening statement, for a split second I thought you were referring to the homeless guy in the second statement.</p>
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		<title>By: Ezra</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910414</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910414</guid>
		<description>Wow, I got a lot of heartless bastards for friends.

The little guy was a cute living thing, and I saw no reason to kill it just because it wanted a warm place to live and some food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I got a lot of heartless bastards for friends.</p>
<p>The little guy was a cute living thing, and I saw no reason to kill it just because it wanted a warm place to live and some food.</p>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910402</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910402</guid>
		<description>I guess I am a softie. I think I am a big part of why Ez didn't want to kill the mice.  They were TINY and really very cute.  I'm not a killer.  I can kill ants and some bugs, but that's about it.

As for homeless people being happier on the streets--perhaps some of them are.  I have lived here long enough to see some seemingly pretty well-adjusted homeless folks, and even what appear to be communities of homeless people.  But if this man is covered in his own feces, he is a danger to himself and to others.  The issue is not that he's homeless, but that he's maybe not entirely stable and possibly physically ill.  My thought re: calling someone, though, is that if there has been police tape around where this guy stations himself, the powers that be are already aware of him and presumably of his situation.  It wouldn't kill anyone to receive another call about him, though.  It might solve the mystery for you, at least, Ez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I am a softie. I think I am a big part of why Ez didn&#8217;t want to kill the mice.  They were TINY and really very cute.  I&#8217;m not a killer.  I can kill ants and some bugs, but that&#8217;s about it.</p>
<p>As for homeless people being happier on the streets&#8211;perhaps some of them are.  I have lived here long enough to see some seemingly pretty well-adjusted homeless folks, and even what appear to be communities of homeless people.  But if this man is covered in his own feces, he is a danger to himself and to others.  The issue is not that he&#8217;s homeless, but that he&#8217;s maybe not entirely stable and possibly physically ill.  My thought re: calling someone, though, is that if there has been police tape around where this guy stations himself, the powers that be are already aware of him and presumably of his situation.  It wouldn&#8217;t kill anyone to receive another call about him, though.  It might solve the mystery for you, at least, Ez.</p>
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		<title>By: Hell-Mikey</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910394</link>
		<dc:creator>Hell-Mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910394</guid>
		<description>Don't mean to nitpick, but did you take a look at the whole wikipedia entry for Kitty Genovese? The aftermath 2007 and 2008 are especially interesting - indicating that the bystander effect that's a staple of psych 101 didn't actually happen in this incident. I'd heard as much somewhere in the last couple of days, but couldn't find a pointer to it in my own history, so was glad to find that someone had added it to this notoriously unreliable source of useful information.

Similarly, heard report of an experiment where you're asked to take a test with a couple of other people, instructions given that you shouldn't disturb the other test takers, and if you get up from your seat, you fail the test. Psych experiment rules mean that the other test takers are actors. Experimenters start to pump smoke in through the ventilation system, actors stay at  their seat, and some big ole' percentage of subjects sit there too, presumably taking social signals that it's OK. 

Now, I'm passing over the validity of the experiment, how correctly I'm reporting this, and a whole host of other trash. I'm asking, "Would you get up and say something?" And think hard - everyone says that they would, but have you got a history of doing stuff like this.

I think I would. I'm first through the buffet, ask the question at the company meeting, and am the combination of narcissistic enough and social dumb enough to miss the cues others provide. In this, I am quite like some significant portion of the trained behavior you can learn on the internet.

Which is awesome! This means that not only do we get all the neatness that the tubes provide, we also get fewer Kitty Genovese-style syndromes. And Kitty Genovese  debunking! Far more cool than we simple people deserve.

Oh, and for the mice? Garbage bag, and a hammer. Or you can go Infinite Jest style if that's how you roll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t mean to nitpick, but did you take a look at the whole wikipedia entry for Kitty Genovese? The aftermath 2007 and 2008 are especially interesting - indicating that the bystander effect that&#8217;s a staple of psych 101 didn&#8217;t actually happen in this incident. I&#8217;d heard as much somewhere in the last couple of days, but couldn&#8217;t find a pointer to it in my own history, so was glad to find that someone had added it to this notoriously unreliable source of useful information.</p>
<p>Similarly, heard report of an experiment where you&#8217;re asked to take a test with a couple of other people, instructions given that you shouldn&#8217;t disturb the other test takers, and if you get up from your seat, you fail the test. Psych experiment rules mean that the other test takers are actors. Experimenters start to pump smoke in through the ventilation system, actors stay at  their seat, and some big ole&#8217; percentage of subjects sit there too, presumably taking social signals that it&#8217;s OK. </p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m passing over the validity of the experiment, how correctly I&#8217;m reporting this, and a whole host of other trash. I&#8217;m asking, &#8220;Would you get up and say something?&#8221; And think hard - everyone says that they would, but have you got a history of doing stuff like this.</p>
<p>I think I would. I&#8217;m first through the buffet, ask the question at the company meeting, and am the combination of narcissistic enough and social dumb enough to miss the cues others provide. In this, I am quite like some significant portion of the trained behavior you can learn on the internet.</p>
<p>Which is awesome! This means that not only do we get all the neatness that the tubes provide, we also get fewer Kitty Genovese-style syndromes. And Kitty Genovese  debunking! Far more cool than we simple people deserve.</p>
<p>Oh, and for the mice? Garbage bag, and a hammer. Or you can go Infinite Jest style if that&#8217;s how you roll.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910385</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910385</guid>
		<description>I try not to feel guilty about such things. For many homeless people, life on the streets is preferable to being in jail or spending years in a drug-induced stupor in some horrific institution. 

If I felt guilty about anything it's knowing that my life would be made more pleasant by the absence of a large percentage of the population. Notice how the homeless magically disappear whenever a city hosts the Olympics or some visiting head of state. While there are a few people who are outraged on their behalf, the fact is, the overwhelming majority of people are glad to be able to walk around without having to deal with panhandlers, the stench of human filth, and the daily visual reminder that we and the system we benefit from has failed a large number of our fellow citizens.

By the way, years ago I bought 5 white mice for a show. I kept the little buggers fed but they kept preying on the weakest member of the group. Each day, I'd wake up to find a mouse with it's head missing and the others looking well fed and licking flecks of blood off their snouts until, at last, only one remained. I pretty much lost all sympathy for mice after that. I took the last remaining cannibal and tossed him into the yard across the street and decided to use artificial mice instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I try not to feel guilty about such things. For many homeless people, life on the streets is preferable to being in jail or spending years in a drug-induced stupor in some horrific institution. </p>
<p>If I felt guilty about anything it&#8217;s knowing that my life would be made more pleasant by the absence of a large percentage of the population. Notice how the homeless magically disappear whenever a city hosts the Olympics or some visiting head of state. While there are a few people who are outraged on their behalf, the fact is, the overwhelming majority of people are glad to be able to walk around without having to deal with panhandlers, the stench of human filth, and the daily visual reminder that we and the system we benefit from has failed a large number of our fellow citizens.</p>
<p>By the way, years ago I bought 5 white mice for a show. I kept the little buggers fed but they kept preying on the weakest member of the group. Each day, I&#8217;d wake up to find a mouse with it&#8217;s head missing and the others looking well fed and licking flecks of blood off their snouts until, at last, only one remained. I pretty much lost all sympathy for mice after that. I took the last remaining cannibal and tossed him into the yard across the street and decided to use artificial mice instead.</p>
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		<title>By: bostnkid</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910367</link>
		<dc:creator>bostnkid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910367</guid>
		<description>i got a tear in my eye when the second mouse died on the ride to freedom.i think its nice that you want to help people. Sometimes though, its not worth it.But I'll always help animals. John Cowan is selfish and heartless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i got a tear in my eye when the second mouse died on the ride to freedom.i think its nice that you want to help people. Sometimes though, its not worth it.But I&#8217;ll always help animals. John Cowan is selfish and heartless.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Biologist</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910365</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Biologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910365</guid>
		<description>The most humane way to euthanize a mouse is called cervical dislocation.  First, hold it by the tail with one hand.  Find a skinny stiff object, like a pencil or pen, and hold the object in your other hand.  Let the mouse grab onto something with its front legs and dangle its back legs.  It should stretch out from tail to head this way.

Press the pen down and away from you firmly on the mouse's neck.  You should not be choking it between whatever it's grabbing onto and the pen, just applying enough pressure to keep the head from moving.  Add more pressure down and away on the neck while suddenly pulling on the tail towards you.  You are trying to pull the spinal cord away from the base of the brain.  This will quickly stop all of the necessary signals to the rest of the body and the heart will quickly stop, killing the mouse.

Other than using carbon dioxide or another more involved euthanasia method, this is the most humane way to kill a mouse and is relatively quick and painless for them.  You can read about the procedure here:  http://labanimals.stanford.edu/guidelines/cerv_dislocate.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most humane way to euthanize a mouse is called cervical dislocation.  First, hold it by the tail with one hand.  Find a skinny stiff object, like a pencil or pen, and hold the object in your other hand.  Let the mouse grab onto something with its front legs and dangle its back legs.  It should stretch out from tail to head this way.</p>
<p>Press the pen down and away from you firmly on the mouse&#8217;s neck.  You should not be choking it between whatever it&#8217;s grabbing onto and the pen, just applying enough pressure to keep the head from moving.  Add more pressure down and away on the neck while suddenly pulling on the tail towards you.  You are trying to pull the spinal cord away from the base of the brain.  This will quickly stop all of the necessary signals to the rest of the body and the heart will quickly stop, killing the mouse.</p>
<p>Other than using carbon dioxide or another more involved euthanasia method, this is the most humane way to kill a mouse and is relatively quick and painless for them.  You can read about the procedure here:  <a href="http://labanimals.stanford.edu/guidelines/cerv_dislocate.html" rel="nofollow">http://labanimals.stanford.edu/guidelines/cerv_dislocate.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Cowan</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910364</link>
		<dc:creator>John Cowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910364</guid>
		<description>You see a person on the street with a problem.  You think, "I know!  I'll call social services!", and you do. Now the person has two problems.

Obviously this doesn't apply to someone who's just been hit by a car or had a heart attack.  Most people don't hesitate to call 911 in that circumstance.

I have no hesitation about flushing mice, whether dead or alive.  Make sure to wrap the mouse in toilet paper first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You see a person on the street with a problem.  You think, &#8220;I know!  I&#8217;ll call social services!&#8221;, and you do. Now the person has two problems.</p>
<p>Obviously this doesn&#8217;t apply to someone who&#8217;s just been hit by a car or had a heart attack.  Most people don&#8217;t hesitate to call 911 in that circumstance.</p>
<p>I have no hesitation about flushing mice, whether dead or alive.  Make sure to wrap the mouse in toilet paper first.</p>
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		<title>By: summervillain</title>
		<link>http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910345</link>
		<dc:creator>summervillain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://realfake.org/blog/2008/03/17/mice-and-men-and-merde-and-mort/#comment-13647034969908910345</guid>
		<description>Malcolm Gladwell talks about the everyone-assumes-someone-else-will problem in one of his books, which are partly social psychology and marketing too, I guess, but pretty interesting.

The other day I encountered a woman who was driving an electric wheelchair the wrong way down Prospect street. She had one bare foot. I rationalized not doing anything in all kinds of ways -- I was on a bike, I was in a hurry, it was far from clear that she would agree she needed any assistance, my phone will invoke emergency services in Maryland -- and did nothing and have felt somewhat guilty since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malcolm Gladwell talks about the everyone-assumes-someone-else-will problem in one of his books, which are partly social psychology and marketing too, I guess, but pretty interesting.</p>
<p>The other day I encountered a woman who was driving an electric wheelchair the wrong way down Prospect street. She had one bare foot. I rationalized not doing anything in all kinds of ways &#8212; I was on a bike, I was in a hurry, it was far from clear that she would agree she needed any assistance, my phone will invoke emergency services in Maryland &#8212; and did nothing and have felt somewhat guilty since.</p>
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